Tape 01 Chatham Village Board Meeting 3-24-1987
[Speaker 1] (0:00)
Board meeting on March the 24th, 1987. Thank you.
[Don] (0:07)
...everybody [...] that can’t speak until they have went all the way around, everybody has a
chance to speak then I will not recognize anybody the second time until all have had their
chance [...] just have one or two [.....] so I don't recognize you the second time now just
because of the fact that there are some others that are waiting for their turn. As I said at the
last meeting, that we would hold this meeting, it would be for the purpose of discussion on
the part of the Jaycees as well as the Legion. The Legion brought to me last night, I think
each one of the trustees, a proposal of what they intend to do and what they would like to do.
Their intent, how to try to handle the problems that have been in there and taking care of the
large crowds. So, is there anything that any of the board members —well, might also say that
the Jaycees brought theirs tonight, what their intent is. Is there anything any of the board
members want to say, discuss before we start the open public?
[...] I might just say that, and I'll read you some of these so that you kind of know what,
maybe they think they're going back over a few times, but one of the things, one page that the
Legion had on theirs for 1987 homecoming, and this is their proposals. They proposed that
alcoholic beverage would only be sold from vendors on the park grounds. Alcohol purchases
will be transacted through the purchase and redemption of coupons.
Coupon purchases will be available at designated stands only. At each coupon sales stand,
one person will be designated solely for the purchase of checking identification. Purchase of
alcohol coupons will be determined by proof of age.
Identification wristbands will be affixed to all persons purchasing coupons or possessing
alcohol. No coupon will be redeemed for beer unless the person is wearing an identification
band. Different colored wristbands will be utilized every night to prevent unauthorized
persons from redeeming coupons.
Security personnel will be instructed that any person whose appearance [....] for their illegal
age will be required to produce identification upon demand. Officers will be instructed to
actively check identification of persons of questionable age, whether they possess a wristband
or not. Signs will be erected at the entrance and exits in conspicuous locations, prohibiting
persons from entering or leaving the park area with alcoholic beverage, depending on the
proposed amendment.
Persons violating any liquor law will be removed from the park. Persons refusing to leave the
park will be arrested. Intoxicated underage persons will be taken into custody.
Signs on coupon sales stands and beer trucks restricting age will be prominently displayed.
Security will be provided by the Sangamon Sheriff's Department. Ticket sales to stop at 11.30
p.m. each night. On Saturday night, the number of tickets purchased by an individual will be
limited at 11 o'clock [....]. To permit an orderly dispersal of the crowd, the band will be
required to finish at 11.30, and alcohol sales will end at 12 midnight sharp. That's some of the
16 different items that they've proposed to put into the resolutions that they've brought
forward for changes in the rules of the park.
Basically, the Jaycees have used the armbands in the past. They're pretty much looking at the
same plan. They said they had 10 officers last year in the Jaycees. This year, they plan to hire
12 or 14. I don't know, Bob might be able to say if there's other things here that's different
from what they had last year. Basically, I think that what the Legion is saying and what the
Jaycees are saying is that consumption will be only by sales of the two clubs. There will be
no carry-ins, is what they're proposing here. So, that's going to tell where we are and what to
start the open.
So, we'll open it to the public now, and we can go from there. I would ask that you give your
name to the clerk. [...] Who wants to start? [...]
[Lee Turley] (6:05)
[...] the last day or so. My name's Lee Turley, commander of the American Legion [...] in
Chatham. And I think by giving the board this proposal that we are showing good faith
towards reducing the underage drinking at the homecoming and trying to control the problem
we had last year on certain [...] with a large crowd. We think this is a vital function for the
community, as well as American Legion, a number of other non-profit organizations that
participate in the homecoming. They sell their products, make money for their projects for the
year, whatever they might be. So, we've been coordinating the service for several of the other
organizations in the village.
We know that we can't eliminate every problem is going to come up. But we still feel that the
positives outweigh the negatives by quite a bit. And we request that the board [...].
[Bruce Thompson] (7:17)
My name is Bruce Thompson and I am one of the co-chairmen of the 1987 Sweet Corn
Festival. Very much similar to Lee, we feel that although he just kind of highlighted the letter
that we gave the board members, we are trying very hard to make sure that the Sweet Corn
Festival is run in a responsible manner.
Several other local groups have used this as an opportunity to raise money for their various
functions. While we realize that the weekend of the festival does create an inconvenience to
the citizens, we feel that the positives, again, will outweigh the negatives. Many of the groups
that now do charitable civic functions in the future may not be able to provide those services
if they don't raise the funds at Sweet Corn.
[Don] (8:24)
Rose?
[Rose] (8:27 - 8:38)
Rose [....], Chatham. At the last board meeting, there were some questions raised about where
the beer tents would be situated. Is there anything in those two resolutions that speaks to that
issue?
[Don] (8:40)
Lee had a map [...] last night that he showed us on what their position or what their intent was
and the way they intended to set theirs up. I haven't seen anything from the Jaycees myself. I
don't know if any of the other board members have either. How they intend to set theirs up is
different from what it was last year. Lee, do you want to bring it up here so that we can see
it?
[Rose] (9:09)
At our last meeting, my remembrance that the board had some confusion whether or not they
wanted to even leave a tent on the park and/or shift them to a side street. Is the board still
thinking along those lines?
[Don] (9:29)
That's some of the things I'm going to try [...]I mean, I can't answer all the board [...]. You
probably have got some reference to the fact that I said I would like to see the beer wagons or
trucks or however you want to say it, go to the street like it used to be.
But that's only a personal, I mean, that’s my opinion. Where I think personally it should go.
Now how the board feels and what their position will be, I'd say it will be things that they
will have to decide [...].
[Rose] (10:05 - 10:11)
Is there going to be a decision made this evening on this issue or will it be a carryover to
another meeting?
[Don] (10:13)
That's up to how far they want to go with it. The resolution is not actually made up. I think
this is the basis, or that's what they're going to try to do, is get the basis of the resolution. [...]
can type it up there or write it up fast enough in the thing tonight. That's up to the board
whether they want to go ahead and pass through the thing tonight, how they want to do it.
[Rose] (10:42)
So you don't have a resolution already constructed—
[Don] (10:45)
No.
[Rose] (10:45)
—is my question.
[Bruce Thompson] (10:48)
Don, would you like me to [...] This is where the park is situated. This being Park Street. This
is Mulberry Street. This is the [...] where we cook our fish, serve our fish. We have our
earliest trucks for our commodity dealer. We're going to set our ticket booths up in this
fenced in area. We'll have security for our ticket sellers this year. We've only set them up in
the middle of the park before, but they really don't have very good security.
In years past, it seems like our biggest problem area has been in the southwest corner of the
park. We've had our Port-A-Johns, beer truck, very close to this corner. We seem to get a big
crowd in that area, that's where all the fights started [...]. This year, we're going to do our best
to keep things out of that corner. It looks kind of dark back there.
We'll try to move things down this way, more centered on the park. We might put two beer
trucks down along Market Street. We might put two by the swing sets like we had last year
on the other side of the swing set. Possibly one at the end of the tent where our band will be.
We'll come down to the northwest corner [...] and put some port-a-potties on this corner.
We'll also put some along the east boundary line where the carnival will start, that way,
people with young children that don't want to have [...] in this area can still get some port-a-
potties for their kids or themselves, whatever. Our concessionaires and non-profit
organizations put the [...] pretty close to the concrete block [...] at least 40 feet this year.
We'll try to spread things out a little bit so we're not awfully crowded [...]. We'll try to have a
whole lot more port-a-potties this year. I know some neighbors close to the park have
problems every year with people coming and going.
I don't know if we can ever get enough of them or not, but we'll make an honest effort to try
to make [...] we can. Fence [...] biggest part of the south, right in front of the [...]l lodge. We'll
go in the southwest corner, around [...] the northwest corner, and we'll come about halfway
down Mulberry Street to this place. We don't want to be locked in on this side.
This year, we'll try to get the carnival groups to set up a natural barrier between the carnival
with either tents or their trailers, then we’ll have kind of a natural barrier between the carnival
part of the park and the beer drinking part of the park.
[Bill Myers] (13:48)
Bill Myers. I guess one of the questions I have, first, that I want to say is that I don't think
anybody wants to see where clubs and organizations and that the Jaycees and other clubs are
doing worthwhile events and things for Chatham and their fundraising. But I guess my major
question is, there are other festivals, there are other homecomings in the area, outside the
area, Lincoln, Railsplitter, Franklin's Homecoming, where beer is not sold, and yet it is an
event that is well supported, that other things are sold. I guess the question I have is, why is
beer necessary to raise funds? Funds can be raised by other means and by selling other things.
[Don] (14:41)
Are you asking me for an answer on that?
[Bill Myers] (14:44)
I'm asking anybody to respond to that. That, that we don’t want to see—I don't want to see
where the clubs and organizations aren't raising their funds, but aren't there other alternatives
to raising funds besides selling beer?
[Don] (15:00)
I'm sure there is. [....] Jaycees are in the [...]
[Bill Myers] (15:08)
Then the other question, are there any city ordinances or state laws in regard to drinking on
public property?
[Don] (15:19)
There is a village ordinance, and I read this at the last meeting, that says alcohol and
beverages are prohibited.
Well, it says not to have any alcohol or beverages, but then it also says that the board has the
right to grant an exception. The first one, I think, is for the betterment of the village, for the
good of the people in the village. For the best interest, that’s what it says, for the best interest
of the residents of the village of Chatham. The board has the right to grant an exception for
the county. The ordinance says that.
[Bill Myers] (15:58)
My exception would be where be in the best interest of the people of Chatham.
[Rose] (16:05)
Most of the people in Chatham are beer drinkers. I suppose we'd like to have our beer while
we're patronizing the rest of the groups.
[Bill Myers] (16:13)
Nobody's going to make Chatham a dry city, I mean—
[Rose] (16:16)
Well, thank you. [laughter]
[Bill Myers] (16:19)
You know, nobody's staying that. There are bars, there are package liquor stores, there are
plenty of opportunities.
[Rose] (16:25)
Some of us don't like to drink in bars.
[Don] (16:26)
Rose, roll the tape.
[Rose] (16:28)
I’m sorry.
[Speaker 3] (16:31)
I’m sorry, this man was first.
[Bob Scout] (16:33)
My name is Bob Scout, and I concur with this gentleman, some of the things he said. There
are very few nights during the year that I feel that I have to keep my children under wraps
and close my side and the nights of the festivals are they. I think it's pretty eloquent in terms
of the proposal that there are 16 points that were necessary to try to gain some kind of
security in the park area. And look at the problems that are involved. All of them could be
eliminated if we eliminate the alcohol consumption. And I, again, agree that I don't think it's
in the best interest of the community. It might be in the interest of some people, but in the
best interest of the community, I don't think it is.
[Speaker 4] (17:36)
I think we all ought to look at what our sesquicentennial did. It was a total flop. Because beer
wasn't allowed in the park. Well, the Jaycees, how many times have they been running now?
Do you not see people leaving there?
[Speaker 5] (17:52)
It was not a total flop, thank you. [laughter]
[Speaker 4] (17:56)
That’s your opinion, it was.
[Speaker 5] (17:58)
I was co-chairman of it.
[Speaker 4] (18:00)
It was a flop.
[Speaker 5] (18:01)
It wasn’t.
[Speaker 4] (18:02)
Yes.
[Fred Kramer] (18:08)
Yes. Fred Kramer, 30 Cottonwood. I'd like to indicate that I am opposed to the city's support
and sanction of the sale and/or availability of alcoholic beverages at any function in the
village, regardless of how well intended such events might be. When I say that I object to the
city's direct or indirect involvement in this practice, no doubt there will be some who will
think that because I'm a pastor that such a stance is expected.
It's thought to be part of the pastoral posturing. I will admit that I cannot easily separate my
experience as a Christian and as a pastor from this issue. However, it is interesting, and I
think noteworthy, that the secular community has begun to recognize that accountability for
drunkenness has begun, or and suffering and death which arise out of the use and abuse of
alcohol rests not solely with the individual who is DUI and may have caused a tragic accident
as a result, but also juries with multi-million dollar decisions are saying that those who serve
the liquor bear responsibility as well. The courts are answering the question which has been
posed so long ago. Am I my brother's keeper?
Many of the Christian church have said for hundreds of years they've answered yes to that
question. Now the courts are saying the same thing. By finding the tavern owners and other
related parties to be participants in the process which lead to a tragic end, juries are saying
yes, if you choose to enter into these sorts of transactions with other persons, you are
responsible as responsible as the drunk who killed those people who were riding in the car or
who were broadsided at 70 miles an hour.
In my years of counseling, I have yet to meet anyone whose life has been improved because
of liquor. And I can point to hundreds of tragic cases in which lives and whole families have
been destroyed because of its use or abuse. I simply ask, does the village of Chatham want to
identify itself with the sale and distribution, directly or indirectly, of alcohol in any village-
sponsored event?
Is the village in such a position that we can afford a multi-million-dollar judgment? Do we
want our village to be identified, as we were last year on radio and television, as the village
which encourages minors to drink and brawl in the village square? Are we ready to say to the
homeowners who put up with the aftermath of these alcoholic binges, that we don't care that
drunks are using their backyards as toilets and garbage dumps?
I strongly urge that the village disassociate itself from the posture which says we don't care
and instead take a stand against alcoholic beverages being served or tolerated at village
events. If I were a parent or a loved one of someone who had been hurt as a result of this, I
would be strongly persuaded to name the village and the organization in a lawsuit. And I, as a
pastor, will strongly urge my congregation to not participate in this event in any kind of way
if the alcoholic beverages are served.
[Unknown] (21:56)
I’ve never asked to have a [...] job there.
[Bill Myers] (21:59)
Nobody's answered the question of, you know, I see where you're coming from, but nobody's
answered the question on why there are other festivals that are successful and beer is not sold
and they still make money. All the organizations make money selling other things.
[Speaker 6] (22:15)
I don't hear anybody come up with such a situation. There's been that much problem while
this thing's been going on for years. I don't know how many long you’ve lived here, or how
long I’ve lived here, but I know I’ve been here a long time.
[Speaker 7] (22:27)
Thirty-seven years here really haven't been that much of a problem.
[Speaker 6] (22:30)
I was here probably before you was born.
[Bill Myers] (22: 33)
Well, it seems to have been a problem last year.
[Speaker 8] (22:37)
No. [unintelligible] Maybe to you—
[Speaker 6] (22:37)
It wasn't a problem last year.
[Speaker 8] (22:39)
Maybe to you it was, but not to anybody else.
[Doug Armstead] (22:46)
Doug Armstead, 124 [...] Court. Last year, I volunteered to be part of the Citizens Who Care
group that helped to check IDs at the Jaycee Corn Festival. And during that time, we turned
quite a few teenagers away.
However, at the same time, we were able to stand there and watch those teenagers drinking
beer. I don't know where they got it, how they were able to get it, but they managed to get it. I
think that the idea of checking the IDs was a good idea.
However, it does not solve the situation. It does not prevent the children or the teenagers from
getting the alcohol if they want to get it. And I, for one, also, as this other gentleman
mentioned, have to corral my kids during that period of time to make darn sure they don't go
any place near that square.
And that's just a known fact in our family. So the other thing that I would like to mention also
is that while we were checking those IDs, there were people that were able to get the bands in
some way, too. I don't know how they got it, okay, but they also had bands.
So I think, you know, no matter how hard you try, the people are still, the kids are still going
to manage some way to get those alcoholic beverages. And I know for myself, I will not
check IDs again. I don't want to be a party to allowing some child to go out and kill himself
on the highway after he's had some alcohol.
[Haley Harvey] (24:40)
Yeah, I live right across the street here in 108 East Mulberry, and I just moved down here in
July, and I was very disgusted with everything that you've had since we've been around here,
because it's been nothing but beer parties and people going to the bathroom, parking in my
backyard. It's taking three people to keep an eye on the yard to keep people out and keep
them from having parties. This year, I'm not going to fool with it.
I'm going to get my water hose out. I'm going to hook it up to the hot water. The first thing
that wets in my backyard, I'm going to hose him down with hot water. [laughter] I don't give
a damn who he is. He's going. I've had it. I've strictly had it with it. And if you don't want to
do anything about the beer thing, like he said, I will call the police, and I will go higher up.
I will do some bitching, because I'm one that will bitch, because we bought the property to be
happy and to make a business for Chatham, and I like it, but I just can't see tolerating stuff
like that. I don't think there's any excuse for it.
[Unknown] (25:41)
And could I have your name?
[Haley Harvey] (25:43)
What?
[Unknown] (25:44)
Could I have your name?
[Hayley Harvey] (25:45)
Haley Harvey.
[Unknown] (25:47)
You’re Haley Harvey?
[Hayley Harvey] (25:48)
Right.
[Pete Sullivan] (25:53)
Pete Sullivan. What streets are going to be closed down?
[Unknown] (25:59)
Probably none.
[Pete Sullivan] (25:59)
None?
[Unknown] (26:03)
There's not going to be a home down there.
[Don] (26:06)
As far as I know. True. That Baldrige, that Martin, there's nothing changed in that
perspective.
[Pete Sullivan] (26:16)
Well, my concern is getting my trucks in and out.
[Don] (26:19)
Well, like I said, when I talked to you before, I'm sure that we can work that corner, you
know, cut across that corner, to keep that open. It will have to be open because of the bank,
and also the [...]. Jim Woodward is another one that needs to keep it open regarding any
business. So there has to be some route, and I think they have put a fenced up area, so he's
looking at it now. At least that's what the Legion does. And the area so that it still leaves Jim
Woodward up there.
[Speaker 9] (26:59)
Hi, good morning [...]. I have sons that are Jaycees, and I'm a member of one of them today.
We did the wrist band thing last year, and I agree, we saw some kids that were underage with
the beer. My son's 19, and I don't know a Jaycee who wouldn't take a beer out of his hand and
spill it on the ground if he were to get one. I've seen underage kids, and we turn to them.
We're parents too, and we don't want to see the kids drinking either. And we do our best, and
I think the Jaycees have done it as well as anybody. And I think the reason they sell beer is
beer is our moneymaker. And the money's turned around by the Jaycees, put back into the
community, and I think that's why they sell beer. It makes money.
[Speaker 10] (27:47)
Can you put a price tag on someone's life? And also, I would like to ask a question too.
Someone made the point that this has been going on for 30 years. I was under the impression
that it's only been the last few years that they've allowed alcohol into the parks. Does
anybody know for sure when they began to do that?
[Speaker 11] (28:11)
I have been in this community practically all my life, and I have attended ever homecoming
but one in 37, and there has been liquor or beer served at ever one.
[Unknown] (28:27)
Amen.
[Speaker 10] (28:28)
Is that in the park?
[Speaker 11] (28:29)
In the park or near the park. You walk from here over to the park, there's never been any
stopping of beer as far as I can remember. Like I said, I missed one.
[Speaker 10] (28:39)
Well, can I ask you this? Was the concession stand for the beer, was that in the park? Or was
it...?
[Speaker 11] (28:44)
What difference does it make to get carried from one side of the road to the other?
[Speaker 10] (28:28)
Well, you can carry beer any place you want
[Speaker 11] (28:50)
Sure.
[Speaker 10] (28:50)
right now, but I'm saying during the park, during the homecomings, it was sold in the park
area. When did that start?
[Don] (29:00)
Well, I don't know when it started actually going in the park. I remember back years ago
when it used to be that they set up in the, well, they set up at one time right out here.
[Unknown] (29:12)
Right out in front.
[Don] (29:13)
Then they were across [...] the beer tents were in the street. I don't think that they actually
drew the beer wagons into the park area until after the pavilion arrived.
It was probably in ‘77 or ‘78 when that started and the beer trucks and all were parked in the
park itself as far as I can remember. I'm not saying that's official, but I would say that's
around probably in ‘77 or ‘78 when they moved into the park.
[Speaker 12] (29:54)
Thank you, [...]. One of my concerns is has the American Legion made any provisions as to
where the Carney people are going to be parking now that where they used to park has got a
new building constructed on it? Another thing is, is there going to be additional containers for
garbage because I myself can vouch and I live like four or five blocks away that I picked up a
huge 40-gallon bag of trash out of my own yard the next day. So, yeah.
I also caught people doing their number in my yard too and I turned the light on them and
they took off. Another thing is that I've heard other people mention but nobody’s brought it
up yet tonight, what are the plans for the future as far as moving it out of the downtown area
to a location on the outskirts of town?
[Don] (30:55)
I can't answer that.
[Speaker 12] (30:57)
Doesn't the American Legion own some property somewhere I've been told?
[Don] (31:01)
They do. [unintelligible] They have like 14 acres. [laughter]
[Speaker 12] (31:06)
Oh yeah?
[Unknown] (31:07)
You own the city.
[Don] (31:10)
I don't know. They do own the property down there in the outskirts.
[Speaker 12] (31:15)
Okay, what, I mean, okay, is that property farmed currently or is there any provision in the
future where you could use that since it is your property for your function rather than the
downtown?
[Speaker 1] (31:30)
If we quit having these carnivals at the park up here and making $20,000 a year how the hell
are we going to go down there and improve that thing and develop it so we can build a home
and make a park down there if you cut us out of having a—
[Speaker 12] (31:43)
I'm not saying right now you don't have to get so rude. I mean there's a lot of rude people in
this room tonight and I think that's a shame.
[Unknown] (31:51)
Amen.
[Speaker 12] (31:52)
You know, this, we're all here for the same reason. We're all concerned on one side or
another as to what's going to happen and I don't think we need to have a lot of rudeness
interjected in this. You know, we’re here trying to solve a problem amicably with everybody,
you know, trying to come out on the happy end. There's got to be, you know, some form of
coming to terms with this.
[Speaker 13] (32:19)
I see one. If you move the beer away from the activities of...
[Don] (32:27)
I can do it [...] use the area we're going out to and then we're able to perhaps stop [...]
possibly behind the gas station [...] between the alley
[Speaker 12] (32:43)
Where like the bus stations park or something?
[Don] (32:47)
[...] park your truck [...] also park [...]
[Speaker 12] (32:52)
I'm sure there's going to no matter where they end up, I'm sure there's going to be some
unhappy residents, but this is, you know, I'm wanting to know the areas, and you've answered
that question for me. When will you have a decision? Do you have any idea?
[Don] (33:05)
No [...]
[Rick] (33:21)
I'm Rick [...] not a village resident I am minister of the Christian Church in Chatham and I
want to compliment the JCs for the work that they do I appreciate the honest help they give a
lot of people We've had an opportunity to participate to some degree in some of the things
that they're doing I think they make some real contributions to the community as a whole and
I'm very grateful for that but I do question the need for selling alcoholic beverages to
accomplish those ends. I realize that's the biggest money maker and that's how we get the
quickest return and are able to accomplish more faster but I still question the value I don't
believe that the end always justifies the means We've heard a lot about underage drinking,
well I even question the wisdom of selling alcohol to adults in a festival setting. I was just
reading a brochure from the House of Seagrams today trying to do some calculating and they
indicate there that a 120 pound person if they drink two 16—I figured it would be 16 ounce
beers in a two hour period they're driving impaired if they drink three they're legally
intoxicated. 180 pound person, two and a half they're impaired, and four they’re legally
intoxicated. And to me it looks like the reason we want to sell beer is to sell a lot of it and
what we're doing is we're getting people drunk, legally intoxicated, for the good of our
community and I question the wisdom of that
[Don] (35:22)
Anybody else? Yes.
[Ron Juergens] (35:28)
My name is Ron Juergens and I'm the chairman of the local Chatham [...]
Unlimited Group. We're a new organization We had a group out at the Legion homecoming
last year and we appreciated the opportunities to make a few dollars for wildlife habitat. I
also saw some of the activities that went on and even though there were a few skirmishes out
in the crowd I thought overall that the Legion did a pretty good job but my understanding is
that's the worst job they've done. In previous years they had very little problem at all. I'm not
sure that you should judge the Chatham homecoming on one year unless this is a recurring
thing, a bad situation every year but to my understanding it has not been. So again, we
appreciate the opportunity to get the word out and to raise some funds for wildlife and we're
here in support of the Legion and the Jaycees.
[Jerry] (36:34)
I’m Jerry [....] and I live at 37 Parkwood Drive. And my question is number one how much
do how much does the Legion or whoever make off of the activities and also number two the
money that the Legion makes off of the [........]? And also, number two, the money that the
Legion makes from these activities, where does it go how is it used back in the village?
[Unknown] (37:02)
Lee [......] well we must know how much [.....] the Legion [......]
[Unknown] (37:10)
Amen [applause]
[Lee Turley] (37:15)
It did, it varies every year depending on the kind of weather we have [....]. I sat down today
and made up a list of 16 different groups that we sponsored last year for help. I didn’t bring
the list with me tonight but I can name a few off the top of my head. We send two boys from
[....] High School to Boy’s State every year. We help [....] high school, [........] Thanksgiving
parade this year. We sponsor soccer teams, baseball teams, we've donated funds to Jaycee’s
this year for the New West Side Park, we sponsor Boy Scout troop in town. We give to the
Yanks for Christmas, that's the disabled veterans in the hospital or nursing homes, we give to
the [......] hospital, we sponsor a full page ad in Shriner's catalog at their annual circus [....] all
goes to charity [......]. We just—
[Speaker 15] (38:24)
Anybody that wants to [......] a worthwhile organization comes and talks to the American
Legion, you’ve got her, and that's what we've all worked for, and this, you know, there will
be no more of this now we just had our main fundraiser
[Lee Turley] (38:35)
We do see of [...] new material [....] building [...] we spent $25,000 last year [.......] homes for
senior citizens [...] have a decent place for their daily bread, five days a week. We need to cut
some money back each year [....] work for development in our area. [unintelligible] We've
got electricity and water and example parking we still need to take care of.
[Unknown] (39:06)
[unintelligible] money [unintelligible] Obviously what do you try to give back to the village
[......] in the way of...
[Lee Turley] (39:18)
Regular percentage of the take [......]
[Unknown] (39:24)
Is this a substantial amount or is it something we can do without? I guess I’m—
[Unknown] (39:29)
I believe [......] thousand dollars.
[Unknown] (39:21)
What you mean by it’s—
[Unknown] (39:33)
I'm sorry normally it's around $4,800 to $5,300 a year I think $5,000 bucks coming from
those guys. They do not cause trouble in the village I don't think I've heard a word in here
about poverty you know [........] $5,300 to $5,500 bucks is pretty substantial for a...
[Unknown] (39:59)
One more comment on my comment: you know we have several people that are against the
alcohol in the park or against the alcohol [......]. Risky crowds of four to five thousand people
in [......] that shows that the 50% of the community is behind the function, they're supporting
what we do and how we spend our money as a result of it. [unintelligible]
[Carolyn Trott] (40:42)
My name is Carolyn Trott I live in Chatham. I question whether or not if it's necessarily the
people or the community of Chatham that's giving the full support to the beer drinking as
much as surrounding neighborhoods that are drawn here because it's a big beer blast. I live
here in Chatham and I don't let my kids go up either, I take them up in the afternoon and we'll
walk around, maybe we'll have a sweet corn or something and then go home. But I tried that
one time and let them—and I stayed with them in the evening and there was—with the music
and people were dancing and everything and some lady was standing next to me and she was
like half drunk and she dropped her cup of beer all over me and I went home smelling like I'd
been out partying all night. And I don't know maybe that's kind of irrelevant to the situation
but I just don't think that there's that many Chatham people that are really supporting it as
much as it's coming from surrounding people. Half the people where I work in Springfield
all—they head out to Chatham when it's going on.
[Ron Theobald] (42:07)
My name is Ron Theobald. I live 317 West Walnut. It seems to me that we're not—the basic
issue here is not whether you know alcoholic beverages is good for this community, we can
argue that from now until the sun comes up. The last I knew it's legal to drink with the
purchase of an alcoholic license and that's all we're asking for. The issue at hand is not
whether drinking is good for our society, that's not, you know, we're not here to solve that, we
never will, but we're asking that—we have said that we're going to try to police our job and
do a better job and we're just asking the board to permit us the privilege to carry on the
tradition that we've had for so many years.
[Terry Burke] (43:18)
My name is Terry Burke, I live in [....], and, you know, I hear this about having things
without beer. I know the Jaycee's in the last two years have tried to have a Chatham Day in
July. We advertise it, we try to have a good reason—the first year I know we had it for the
broadcasting station out of the high school to help them get some money. We go up there and
we set up, and we start cooking hogs early in the morning and nobody from town shows up.
200 sandwiches is all we sold. And I know the first year I called every organization in town
trying to get them to come up, put on kids games or something for people, make it a Chatham
Day. No alcohol whatsoever. And we couldn't get anybody to come up to it. We sat there, we
had 17-18 guys come up, worked a day, about noon you get pretty disgusted. Last year we
even changed it and added some music to it trying to get people to come out. Once again,
nobody wants to come out to it. So here, we spent two years, two days here and didn’t come
up with—well, the first year we came up with less than $200 and that's because the hogs were
donated. If we hadn't had two hogs donated we would have been [....]. So really, I know the
alcohol creates a lot of problems but I'm one that I'll do anything I can for this community.
But I love helping people, people are the greatest thing in the world. But we've tried it, to
have the Franklin homecomings and we try to have things, but we can't get anybody in town
to come to it. And I'm sorry but that's just the way it is and it's awfully hard to try to do things
in the community such as building parks, helping handicapped kids, families get burned out
of their trailers, this and that. Those revenues you've got to have to go do the things. You
can't get—wait three months when the house is burnt and they're out of clothes, they've got to
have a place to sleep that night and clothes to put on their backs for the next day and we can't
say, “Well, give us six months to raise 50 bucks.” And I know the Jaycees, we have a big
budget and the money we raise goes right back into this community. And we're proud of it.
We took 45 kids this year at Christmas time in to buy shoes, that, you know. These things,
they all take money. I know it's an inconvenience. I live, like I said last time, two weeks ago,
I live in the war zone of the park. The homecoming stuff, five days, I'll sacrifice to see things
being done for the community. Thank you.
[Peggy] (45:57)
My name is Peggy [....], I have a business [applause] at 108 East Mulberry, and if you want to
keep the beer then why don’t we get some volunteers to help police the surrounding areas
other than just the inside of the park? For people drinking outside and people going to the
bathroom, heavy parking areas that aren’t parking in the middle of someone’s backyard, get
some volunteers to help the people in the community as well?
[Unknown] (46:23)
Will you be the first volunteer?
[Peggy] (46:25)
Hm?
[Unknown] (46:26)
Will you be the first volunteer?
[Peggy] (46:270)
I sat out last year.
[Unknown] (46:28)
We had to last year, we had three out in the back yard and we still had [......].
[Peggy] (46:32)
I volunteered in the park to help out my Women’s Club, I see nothing wrong with it.
[Peter S] (46:41)
Peter S[....]. It seems like any time you have an activity like this, whether the Chatham
homecoming or a Sweet Corn Festival, somebody has to be inconvenient. You go to the
county fair, the people living around there are inconvenienced. You go to the state fair, the
people living around there are inconvenienced. You go to the Springfield activities they have,
Lincoln Fest, somebody there is inconvenienced. We all are inconvenienced sometime or
other. And I think—
[Unknown] (47:11)
You’re not [.....]
[Peter S] (47:13)
—if we're interested in our community and want to make it grow and want to see our
programs grow, we have to be willing to be inconvenienced. I live in the war zone too. And
I'm glad to be there. Because I know that I can keep an eye on my part. And if there's
anything going wrong, I can do something about it. And if all the citizens would do the same
thing, they see something going wrong in their neighborhood or in their yard, do something
about it right then. Then we wouldn't have a bigger problem.
[Larry Brewer] (47:42)
Larry Brewer. I've been around here, this area, 20-some years. It's basically the biggest part
of all my life. I've lived in Chatham 10 years. You know, this seems as though Chatham,
when I first came to it, 16 years old and I was old enough to drive, you know, always,
Chatham was always the town. Now it's grown four or five times larger than it was then.
Times have changed. I live two or three blocks away. I go out four nights a year. I pick up
beer cups. I'm a member of both clubs, the Legion, the Jaycees, VFW, you know.
You know, I’ve just—I've grown to love this town. I'm telling you, like this gentleman here
says, you're going to be inconvenienced. But, you know, I venture to say that there's very few
businesses in this town that have this four or five days going on that the village reap kind of
reward. I’m sure the village reaps some receipts, be it what it may, I have no idea. But these
local businesses, whether it's a gas station, a supermarket, a bar, a liquor store, a beauty shop,
whatever, you know, they’re—this town attracts all these people. A hardware store, anything.
All these people around here benefit. And probably further around than Chatham, whether
Springfield or all the smaller communities. You know, now all of a sudden it's up in the air,
you know and this town has been renowned for that. And this town, two times a year, this is
what made this town. A portion of it, you know what I'm saying. It hasn't made the town. But,
you know, look at the town, the way it's grown. A lot of these people are transients. They
don't realize what actually goes on and the work that it takes to do it. You know, just
unbelievable.
And these people give relentless, whether I'm one of them or whatever. And I'm in both
organizations that put these things on. But your time is not worth that, you know, value
because it's for the community.
[Speaker 16] (49:53)
Thank you, I have just two more questions. Number one, the individuals that are stating that
they want the beer out of the activities, would they support the activity? Number two, if the
board does not grant the use of the park, or grant the license for alcohol in the park, will the
two associations hold their activities in the park in Chatham?
[Don] (50:22)
I can't, I can’t answer that
[Speaker 16] (50:23)
That’s the question.
[Bruce Thompson] (50:27)
Bruce. Everybody's been asking all these questions. I figured I'd wait until everybody got
done. And then try to, try to tell you what our thoughts were and something about the Sweet
Corn Festival, I can't speak for the Legion and how their activity is run. Some things that
were brought up or, you know, as justify the means for us selling alcohol in the park.
I don't think whether we sell the alcohol in the park or sell the alcohol in the street really
makes any difference. If people say is life worth it? Well, I don't think so either. And
somebody can get drunk wherever alcohol is purchased or sold as well as they can in the
park. As we talked about in our letter to the board, we talked about—that we don’t—it's not
our intent to see anyone get drunken and disorderly or to consume to an excess. The alcohol
is probably the biggest gross profit maker of any event.
As Terry talked about with Chatham Day the last two years, speaking as the treasurer this
year, it was a wash. You take a lot of risk on when you put on a festival like the Sweet Corn
Festival or the Homecoming. You have a lot of costs that are there, and even if we said right
now that there isn't going to be any alcohol in the park, you look at—you take on an expense
for food and for supplies and for music or whatever you're going to have and you're taking on
a tremendous risk there, whether or not you can even break even.
[Unknown] (52:25)
Four years ago? It rained here?
[Bruce Thompson] (52:28)
Four years ago it rained so bad Saturday night I think it drowned out the cookers. That next
year between the day of that festival in the following year the Jaycees were literally living
hand-to-mouth as far as what they could do in regards to projects for this community.
You don't build a $70,000 park on $200 events. We feel like that in this case, yes, the ends
does justify the means because if we can raise that money and give the kids a place to play
right now then that's better than saying maybe in 10 or 15 years from now they can have a
park to play in. You've all talked about whether or not you would support a festival that did
not have alcohol there and I guess what we're saying is our past track record shows that
nobody does support it.
And that risk that we take in trying to put on that festival, that's why we have to have the
alcohol in order to make it work. The ladies who talked about, you know, the cups in your
yards and people parking there, in our proposal this year we talked about a couple things that
we've done in the past that we've always done on the morning after ourselves to try to police
the streets and then we felt this year it would be better if we even tried to bring in another
civic group, to hire them to do that because again that gives them funds to run their projects.
We also talked about in our letter to the mayor and the board that in the past we've operated
under kind of an assumption that the city wanted us or the village wanted us to be responsible
for the security within the park to make sure that we had security people there; we used
county sheriff's deputies to try to control underage drinking or disorderly conduct or whatever
it might be. But at the same time we felt like that's what they want us to try to control and that
the city wanted to take care of those streets because they've given us the use of the park, they
haven't given us the use of, you know, five blocks either side of it. And that, you know, if
we're operating under that assumption then we should do something to make sure that we're
both in sync with who wants to do, you know, if it's up to us to say that the city wants to have
extra people on duty that night and they don't have enough officers on, if they're going to hire
those people, if they want us to pay for them, then that's something we've got to work out. At
the same time we talked about, you know, at a meeting we had last week we talked about
when a crowd breaks up, people start going to their cars or whatever, you'd like to keep
things moving. I think a lot of the problems that occur are at some point when the festival is
going on but more so after it's over and you get some people that kind of straggle along and
we try to use some of our security people to kind of just—as the crowd left the park, send
some of them down the side streets to people that want to sit on the hood of their car and talk
until 2 in the morning or whatever to find some other place to park and sit on the hood of
their car and talk until 2 in the morning. I don't know if I covered everything everybody
asked a question about or not. Can I open up—does anybody have a question they want to ask
me?
[Rose] (56:20)
Yeah, you didn't answer if they can't serve liquor—
[Bruce Thompson] (56:24)
Whether it’ll be there?
[Rose] (56:24)
Yeah, if you're going to have it or not.
[Bruce Thompson] (56:26)
I cannot speak for the entire Jaycees, I can speak for myself as a voting member my vote will
be no.
[Unknown] (56:32)
10-4!
[Rose] (56:34)
The other question was would you support the activity if there was no alcohol?
[Rick] (56:42)
I can speak for my experience, I've taken my family to Franklin every year since I discovered
it, that's been, probably 8 or 9 years.
[Rose] (56:53)
You're representing your church group.
[Rick] (56:54)
No I'm just speaking for myself.
[Rose] (56:55)
Oh, for yourself, I’m sorry.
[Rick] (56:57)
I’m speaking for myself.
[Rose] (56:58)
So each one of you is just speaking just for yourself
[Rick] (57:00)
Absolutely.
[Rose] (57:01)
Okay.
[Rick] (57:02)
If you asked if I would support it I'd say yes. I love corn on the cob, I love chicken—uh, fish
sandwiches. When I first came to town—
[Rose] (57:11)
Said he was going to recommend that his congregation not attend.
[Fred Kramer] (57:16)
What I recommend and what they do are two different things. Sometimes—
[Rose] (57:19)
Well, a lot of pastors carry a lot of weight in their church.
[Unknown] (57:24)
I'm sorry [......]
[Rose] (57:26)
Sorry. You said can you open it up.
[Unknown] (57:29)
You had to ask me the question [laughter]
[Rose] (57:34)
Sorry I misunderstood.
[Art Mack] (57:36)
okay my name is Art Mack I live at [......] I represent the AAL group that sells a broad
portion of the [....] out here in the park. In both—we work both the homecoming and the
Sweet Corn Festival. We feel very good that we're able to do that. Just our little group selling
those things has over the past 6-7 years we've been doing this given about $25,000 back to
the village of Chatham, in the way of a rescue squad, the lights on the ball field, the library,
the water tank for the fire department, some for Make-A-Wish, [........]. And then also we
work with the Jaycee's on putting coats and hats on the kids and get the shoes and socks.
It's—it's nice for a group as small as we are to be able to do that amount of good for a
community and we appreciate that. We'd like to continue—we'd like to have people there to
do those things. The American Legion has—initially, when we first started it was open to all
vendors whether they be profit or not for profit. One of the steps I think they took in the right
direction was to restrict those groups to only Chatham not for profit organizations. I think
that’s good, and I think it shows that there’s—I’d like [....] Thank you.
[Fred Kramer] (59:16)
I'd just like to say that I appreciate, deeply appreciate, the work that these local organizations
do. I'm appreciative of the fact that there is lying behind all of that a heart that cares. I think
that that's indicative of the kinds of things that you're doing with the funds that you're raising.
I’m—because I'm associated directly with the food pantry, I recognize that we've received a
good deal of support from organizations in the community. Money which was raised through
these kinds of things. The point—I guess the only concern I have—no, it’s not the only
concern, but one of the major concerns that I have—all of us live on the—all of us live with
the idea that we've really got a charmed life. Most of us have the understanding that really
death is not going to come, we're not going to have to deal with any of those kinds of things,
we don't have to deal with tragedy, we don't have to deal with suffering and so on. And we
kind of put those things on the back burner, we think that they'll never come to us. All I want
to know is, what are we going to tell the family of someone who might be tragically hurt as a
result of some kind of an accident, result of some kind of problem that's produced because of
the alcohol that's sold. I want to know, are you going to be ready to be there to face that
family, to counsel them, to love them, and in fact to be their pastor and explain to them why
their child, or why their husband, or why their wife died as a result of an alcoholic or an alc—
a person who was DUI? Are you going to be the one to be there to pick up the pieces? I
wonder.
[Unknown] (1:01:47)
I have a little [unintelligible]
[Unknown] (1:01:54)
We don't have the industry in this town that's going to give five, or eight, or $10,000 a shot to
support some of the recreational and health—some of the health groups they're doing. Like
the shoes, they’re giving out for kids and stuff like that. There isn't going to be funds for
those projects, they're going to be gone. There's not going to be any of the support for them
unless the churches want to take over and fill in for what downfall they may be in funds if we
do away with the [........]
[Bruce M] (1:02:26)
Bruce M[....] I have—first of all, I have a couple things to say. I live in the war zone up there
for two years and I object with whoever the first person was that said this obnoxious term of
the war zone. First off I enjoyed living there and I never told my two boys—and I'm a single
parent and I have as much problem as anybody raising their kids. I have never restricted my
kids from going to either one of the festivals and as a matter of fact I've given them money
and encouraged them to go. I think they need that experience. The—I listen to this man sit
over here and talk about the ills of the world and are we ready to take them on our shoulders.
I don't think we're ready to do this, but God seems not fit in certain circumstances to take care
of people, like the computer we're buying for the blind boy. Now we can't cure the ills of the
world but we can help model a bit with some of the money that has come through there. Also
there's a lot of citizens here, and a lot of civic groups here, saying a lot of things. I'm looking
around, and do I see the chief of police in town here? Our head law enforcement officer in the
village of Chatham on such a sensitive issue is not at the board meeting to assist the board in
making their decision? People think of that a little bit. You've got everybody else concerned
here but the chief of police in this town is not here representing the police department, and
he's the one that's going to be making decisions as far as what the city police department is
going to do that night, I fully support both the American Legion homecoming. I support the
Chatham Sweet Corn Festival. I will always allow my boys to go to it. I have a daughter who
lives down south will be living with me this year; I'll be more than happy to allow her to go
to it for the whole time the thing is going on. Every day that it was—either one of them was
in full swing, in the mornings we got up, went out, picked up whatever beer cups were in the
yard, threw them in my trash pile and burned them with my matches and polluted my air like
everybody else is saying, “my, my, my.” Nobody is really, I think, getting into an in-depth
study of exactly what has happened over the last number of years. We haven't had wholesale
mayhem out here on the roads. People don't go home and beat their wives to pieces and abuse
their children.